Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

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Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

mck-2
All,
 I do believe that it's time that the project rotates the Chair/VP position.
It is normal that the Chair position rotates every year or so, and is sign of a healthy project.
Nicolas, would you be interested?

Otherwise, it may be a good time again to question whether Tiles should be moved to the Attic.
Given that there exists a git mirror on GitHub I see even less reason today to avoid the Attic. Code on github is so easily forked and extended. And with any revival in activity the project can be brought back out of the Attic.

regards,
Mick
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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

Brett Ryan
Tiles is still my goto for templating, and AFAIK it’s the only view composition framework that allows a standard component based method of composing views from smaller parts.

That said, tiles has not really required imho more development as it works really well the way it presently stands.

Unfortunately pivotal have in my eyes been a contributor to the demise of tiles take-up by removing all examples of tiles use from the spring/mvc documentation.

Could an effort to revive tiles awareness be some investment in example usage that is published within and contributed back to http://spring.io? Other awareness strategies?

> On 20 Mar 2018, at 23:24, mck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> All,
> I do believe that it's time that the project rotates the Chair/VP position.
> It is normal that the Chair position rotates every year or so, and is sign of a healthy project.
> Nicolas, would you be interested?
>
> Otherwise, it may be a good time again to question whether Tiles should be moved to the Attic.
> Given that there exists a git mirror on GitHub I see even less reason today to avoid the Attic. Code on github is so easily forked and extended. And with any revival in activity the project can be brought back out of the Attic.
>
> regards,
> Mick
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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

Nicolas LE BAS-2
Hi all,

Long story short, I think the Attic is appropriate.

I do like Tiles. It does work well. But the technologies it relies on
are unlikely to evolve in the coming years, requiring little maintenance.

There is more to a project than its code though. For open source
projects, a healthy, active community is important. And open source or
not, a collection of real world use cases proves it is useful.

Personally I've not had the opportunity to use tiles for a few years
now. I'm doing the templating in the browser, and that excludes Java.
Should we port tiles to another language - TypeScript perhaps?

Tiles could do more. I never managed to complete and merge my stuff
about decoupling Tiles from servlet-centric stuff, and using DI for
configuring it. But nowadays, these seem hardly relevant anymore.
Further improvements on tiles should, IMHO, focus on getting the
benefits of future technologies: Java 9 (lambdas and modules), reactive
streams/RxJava/Reactor, and keep it agnostic of the template engine.
Also it should move away from the HTML templating, unless we port it to
the javascript world. It would be most useful for code generation
though. Perhaps Vert.x is a good target. Or the "Infrastucture As Code"
world (Kubernetes - CloudFormation - Terraform...)

I can imagine future developments to Tiles, but it implies a complete
reengineering. I have plenty of ideas, I'd love contribute and provide
direction, but at the end of the day, my availability is too limited.

For sure the tiles community is healthy, but hardly active. The spring
community has chosen to focus on thymeleaf and deprecated tiles for all
practical purposes. Struts2 has never really achieved traction. Users
are only waking up for reporting bugs - most of those are servlet
configuration issues unrelated to Tiles.

We've been talking about the attic for some time now. I think the time
has come.

Hope this helps,
Nick

On 2018-03-20 08:31, Brett Ryan wrote:

> Tiles is still my goto for templating, and AFAIK it’s the only view composition framework that allows a standard component based method of composing views from smaller parts.
>
> That said, tiles has not really required imho more development as it works really well the way it presently stands.
>
> Unfortunately pivotal have in my eyes been a contributor to the demise of tiles take-up by removing all examples of tiles use from the spring/mvc documentation.
>
> Could an effort to revive tiles awareness be some investment in example usage that is published within and contributed back to http://spring.io? Other awareness strategies?
>
>> On 20 Mar 2018, at 23:24, mck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> I do believe that it's time that the project rotates the Chair/VP position.
>> It is normal that the Chair position rotates every year or so, and is sign of a healthy project.
>> Nicolas, would you be interested?
>>
>> Otherwise, it may be a good time again to question whether Tiles should be moved to the Attic.
>> Given that there exists a git mirror on GitHub I see even less reason today to avoid the Attic. Code on github is so easily forked and extended. And with any revival in activity the project can be brought back out of the Attic.
>>
>> regards,
>> Mick

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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

mck-2

> We've been talking about the attic for some time now. I think the time
> has come.


Following procedure: https://attic.apache.org/process.html

I will announce this intention to the users list. Then later call a vote back here on the dev ML.

Mick.
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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

Brett Ryan
I'd like to be more involved but don't know what you guys feel is the direction for tiles going forward.

Personally I am a more traditional user preferring tiles over other templating frameworks, though we all know tiles is losing ground due to the move from many to HTML pure alternatives.

Was there ever a roadmap for the future of Tiles? Are the original authors now using something different? Has the community moved on?

That said, tiles is still as useful the way it is as it always has been.

> On 4 Jun 2018, at 09:44, mck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> We've been talking about the attic for some time now. I think the time
>> has come.
>
>
> Following procedure: https://attic.apache.org/process.html
>
> I will announce this intention to the users list. Then later call a vote back here on the dev ML.
>
> Mick.


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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

mck-2

> Was there ever a roadmap for the future of Tiles?


If Tiles had more client-side templating implementations, and its composition worked seamless between client and server side, then there's potential for a bigger user base. The ideas on how this might be done have been discussed before in this list.

regards,
Mick

 
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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

Brett Ryan

> On 4 Jun 2018, at 15:10, mck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Was there ever a roadmap for the future of Tiles?
>
> If Tiles had more client-side templating implementations, and its composition worked seamless between client and server side, then there's potential for a bigger user base. The ideas on how this might be done have been discussed before in this list.

Besides captured in this list, do we have it documented somewhere? I'd be quite interested to see.


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Re: Time for a new Chair, or a move to the Attic?

mck-2

> Besides captured in this list, do we have it documented somewhere? I'd
> be quite interested to see.


Brett, only in the list AFAIK.

https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@...:lte=10y:client-side

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d8c5cd10a4172f2e83e99ed8c297c4786c44d66dde11e1cda92f054b@%3Cdev.tiles.apache.org%3E